Comments on: Can You Draw? by William Dolan http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/ An online art magazine ~ Established 2008 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 02:09:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Patrick http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/comment-page-1/#comment-704 Patrick Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:30:12 +0000 http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/#comment-704 Hey don't dis DuChamp. What he said should be said over-and-over again at the expense of skill. There is no one way to create art. I agree skills should be taught and mastered, but the best way to learn to become an artist is studying other artists. Like business, medicine and politics, art is something that needs to be studied and discussed rigorously to be learned. No one is stopping any student from working on their art day and night and researching topics that are not part of the curriculum. I make all types of art and find I need a different art language often. But like many "skills" artists agree there is something more than just mastering a technique. Evenly-weighted- drawn-lines have a place, just like a urinal placed on the floor with a catchy title. The urinal just reveals more about our backwards society. Good luck. Hey don’t dis DuChamp. What he said should be said over-and-over again at the expense of skill. There is no one way to create art. I agree skills should be taught and mastered, but the best way to learn to become an artist is studying other artists. Like business, medicine and politics, art is something that needs to be studied and discussed rigorously to be learned. No one is stopping any student from working on their art day and night and researching topics that are not part of the curriculum. I make all types of art and find I need a different art language often. But like many “skills” artists agree there is something more than just mastering a technique. Evenly-weighted- drawn-lines have a place, just like a urinal placed on the floor with a catchy title. The urinal just reveals more about our backwards society. Good luck.

]]> By: Dmitry Samarov http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/comment-page-1/#comment-621 Dmitry Samarov Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:54:40 +0000 http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/#comment-621 I doubt that Peyton and the rest of'em could paint any better than they do. The trouble is that most of their inspiration comes from throw-away pop culture where fame and scandal are akin to moral values. Also, when the visual vocabulary begins with cheap snapshots and not any interest the actual seen world, the results can't really surprise anyone...I don't begrudge any of them their success, it's a good thing that any painter gets any attention these days; however, there's also no need to spend more than a few seconds with most of their work before moving on...The main goal always should be to show people the world that they live in, to spark some recognition or memory or thought. There's never been a tried and true formula to do this, nor should there be... I doubt that Peyton and the rest of’em could paint any better than they do. The trouble is that most of their inspiration comes from throw-away pop culture where fame and scandal are akin to moral values. Also, when the visual vocabulary begins with cheap snapshots and not any interest the actual seen world, the results can’t really surprise anyone…I don’t begrudge any of them their success, it’s a good thing that any painter gets any attention these days; however, there’s also no need to spend more than a few seconds with most of their work before moving on…The main goal always should be to show people the world that they live in, to spark some recognition or memory or thought. There’s never been a tried and true formula to do this, nor should there be…

]]> By: Ted Stanuga http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/comment-page-1/#comment-620 Ted Stanuga Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:44:34 +0000 http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/#comment-620 Yea the value question is as difficult a question as whether or not it's art at all, becuase art can have no value. There aren't many artists that would turn down a check for that kind of money, it isn't the artists that are deciding who is getting these checks. There is a great documentary on the subject.... The Art of Failure: Chuck Connelly Not for Sale.... where you can see people responsible for setting the trends give it to him and then take it away. His work doesn't change at all, his public does. .. and now this Pittsburg artists work is on the rise again. I am sure that an artist doing quirky paintings of Hollywood stars with a competent palette and both feet in New York Expressionist style, would have very little to say about the zillions of dollars that are going to be risked on her career. To think otherwise doesn't make fiscal sense, and yes we have to be very careful about which careers we choose.. ours is a very strange one. Yea the value question is as difficult a question as whether or not it’s art at all, becuase art can have no value. There aren’t many artists that would turn down a check for that kind of money, it isn’t the artists that are deciding who is getting these checks. There is a great documentary on the subject…. The Art of Failure: Chuck Connelly Not for Sale…. where you can see people responsible for setting the trends give it to him and then take it away. His work doesn’t change at all, his public does. .. and now this Pittsburg artists work is on the rise again.

I am sure that an artist doing quirky paintings of Hollywood stars with a competent palette and both feet in New York Expressionist style, would have very little to say about the zillions of dollars that are going to be risked on her career. To think otherwise doesn’t make fiscal sense, and yes we have to be very careful about which careers we choose.. ours is a very strange one.

]]> By: Norbert Marszalek http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/comment-page-1/#comment-616 Norbert Marszalek Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:33:10 +0000 http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/#comment-616 her color seems very localized...nothing special. hell, I don't have the answers...it's just very strange when artists like Kilimnik, Peyton, Doig, Dumas are SUPERSTARS I'm not saying they should or shouldn't paint or if their work really is good or bad ...but should their stuff be fetching $300,000??? should any one work be worth 300 grand, 1 million, 100 million...??? seems crazy doesn't it - - the whole art world is fucked up yet we want to be a part of it...!!!??? her color seems very localized…nothing special.

hell, I don’t have the answers…it’s just very strange when artists like Kilimnik, Peyton, Doig, Dumas are SUPERSTARS

I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t paint or if their work really is good or bad …but should their stuff be fetching $300,000???

should any one work be worth 300 grand, 1 million, 100 million…??? seems crazy doesn’t it – -

the whole art world is fucked up yet we want to be a part of it…!!!???

]]> By: Ted Stanuga http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/comment-page-1/#comment-615 Ted Stanuga Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:20:05 +0000 http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/#comment-615 What do you think of her color use? What do you think of her color use?

]]> By: Norbert Marszalek http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/comment-page-1/#comment-614 Norbert Marszalek Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:18:18 +0000 http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/#comment-614 Bill, I can see people misunderstanding Vincent back then. I'm sure if he lived longer (he could have lived another 40 years) he may have seen some success in his own lifetime. Matisse was ridiculed but also saw a lot of success in his lifetime. Both of these painters had something special, if people saw it or not. Do we really feel that Kilimnick has something special. Will she become MORE of a superstar 100 years from now? Again, I think we have the art world to blame..not Kilimnick - - ps - Also the difference between Vincent and Kilimnick is that one is a great painter and the other isn't.....hey, Kilimnick can paint anyway she chooses, maybe some of her irony is interesting, etc....I'm assuming she is painting "badly" to make a statement, etc...I just don't think she deserves all the accolades...come on!!!! look at her stuff!!! Bill, I can see people misunderstanding Vincent back then. I’m sure if he lived longer (he could have lived another 40 years) he may have seen some success in his own lifetime. Matisse was ridiculed but also saw a lot of success in his lifetime. Both of these painters had something special, if people saw it or not.

Do we really feel that Kilimnick has something special. Will she become MORE of a superstar 100 years from now?

Again, I think we have the art world to blame..not Kilimnick – -

ps – Also the difference between Vincent and Kilimnick is that one is a great painter and the other isn’t…..hey, Kilimnick can paint anyway she chooses, maybe some of her irony is interesting, etc….I’m assuming she is painting “badly” to make a statement, etc…I just don’t think she deserves all the accolades…come on!!!! look at her stuff!!!

]]> By: Bill Dolan http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/comment-page-1/#comment-613 Bill Dolan Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:44:12 +0000 http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/#comment-613 I think the difference between Kilimnick and Vincent is that she is widely accepted as a great artist now. I think the difference between Kilimnick and Vincent is that she is widely accepted as a great artist now.

]]> By: Norbert Marszalek http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/comment-page-1/#comment-612 Norbert Marszalek Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:39:55 +0000 http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/#comment-612 one more thing, as Mark Staff Brandl points out (unless I'm wrong on this...): maybe this whole thing is a current artworld, curator, academics problem and really not about the artists themselves... Kilimnik is just a painter...it's the artworld and curators that have made her a BIG success...why blame her...right??? one more thing, as Mark Staff Brandl points out (unless I’m wrong on this…):

maybe this whole thing is a current artworld, curator, academics problem and really not about the artists themselves…

Kilimnik is just a painter…it’s the artworld and curators that have made her a BIG success…why blame her…right???

]]> By: Norbert Marszalek http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/comment-page-1/#comment-611 Norbert Marszalek Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:33:03 +0000 http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/#comment-611 Ted, you are right. There is just something about the art world being an open-ended subjective free-for-all that bothers me though. It gives artists the freedom to produce a lot of shit with a lot of philosophical artspeak bullshit to go with it...see, there I go again right back in circles. I better stop now - - Maybe that's the beauty of it...one person's shit is another person's gold ...though I think it is necessary to repeat Bill's comment: “karaoke singers aren’t having decent music careers, yet “karaoke” artists are. ps - as far as Vincent...like I said, some artists are misunderstood during their lifetime. I don't think Karen Kilimnik falls into this territory Ted, you are right.

There is just something about the art world being an open-ended subjective free-for-all that bothers me though. It gives artists the freedom to produce a lot of shit with a lot of philosophical artspeak bullshit to go with it…see, there I go again right back in circles. I better stop now – -

Maybe that’s the beauty of it…one person’s shit is another person’s gold …though I think it is necessary to repeat Bill’s comment: “karaoke singers aren’t having decent music careers, yet “karaoke” artists are.

ps – as far as Vincent…like I said, some artists are misunderstood during their lifetime. I don’t think Karen Kilimnik falls into this territory

]]> By: Ted Stanuga http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/comment-page-1/#comment-608 Ted Stanuga Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:02:10 +0000 http://neotericart.com/2009/01/21/can-you-draw/#comment-608 True it is an interesting discussion...and the schlocking painting of Paris Hilton that you link is pretty questionable....but the artworld thought the same of Vincent....exactly the same..... which should give pause at least. True it is an interesting discussion…and the schlocking painting of Paris Hilton that you link is pretty questionable….but the artworld thought the same of Vincent….exactly the same….. which should give pause at least.

]]>